The Return of Man Camp
M. and I have started our evening parents support group (clearly, we love to be supported in this parenting thing considering how many groups we go t0). We do a check in then discuss a preset topic each week. Last night we learned that we will again experience the joys of...
MAN CAMP!
This is the completely-useless-for-lesbians-seperating-of-the-group-by-gender so the boys can beat their drums and the girls can trade beauty secrets.
We've run into Man Camp before: when M. ended up with The Dads during our birth class, when we did some sort of listening circle during our pre-baby relationship workshop. M. has declared that she will NEVER be part of Man Camp again.
I haven't felt as is0lated from our heterosexual counterparts in parenting as I did when I was pregnant. Then things like Man Camp happen and M. and I get the joy of having our time wasted and getting nothing out of our support group for two whole meetings. I realize this is a byproduct of being a minority in a heterosexual world, but I still long for some degree of sensitivity toward doing things in a way that includes us in the group instead of sacrificing our experience for the straight people around us.
I want to give the leader the Bitchy Lesbian Smackdown. M. has told me that I'm not allowed. Maybe I'll just do a few Dad Power Fists to the guys in the group to salve my wounded soul.
*thanks to Dr. Phil for the term Man Camp
posted by Sacha @ 4:57 AM
7 comments
7 Comments:
Let me start by saying that I do get that it's frustrating. But I guess I want you to elaborate more, if you will. Why will it be a problem for you both to be in the women's group? How will that waste your time? Maybe I am being dense here.
Because it's supposed to be "girls night" and "guys night" meaning one person takes the baby so the otehr doesn't have to. Except M. and I will have Finn so there's no benefit in "girls night out". And it's so we can talk about specific GIRL issues without the guys around. Except that we'll both be there. So it's a bit useless. Plus we just don't have those gender issues in our relationship, so all we'll do is listen to things that don't apply to us.
--Sacha
The "night out" issue aside, my wife and I have found we can sometimes offer a bit of perspective during these very gendered discussions. It's probably not all that useful to you two personally, but you might be able to provide an example of truly sharing care to the other women in the group if you do participate. You have also dealt with a distinction in nursing roles, which is often what is blamed (I think unfairly) for much of the gendered division of labor that you and M have avoided.
I know it get's tedious!
It's funny because Rose loves things like this. In our API group she goes to "Partners Night Out" which is all dads, her, and one other mom from a lesbian couple. They drink beer, play poker, go to bars, and don't talk about birth, breastfeeding, etc. etc. and talk about what it's like to be an attachment parent from their own perspective. To be fair, Rose identifies as genderqueer and definitively gets along better with men in general. Our relationship in terms of these things is a lot different than you and M. and how you relate to Finn, from what you have told me. All these women at work have been talking to Rose lately about being a mom and last week she said to me "why can't they just see, I'm a dad with boobs." Haha!
I think allowing space for dads is important, however the group leader should be sensitive and maybe just ask you how you would prefer to participate/handle it, you know? I think that would be the most respectful.
Weird. I kind of feel like the only gender issue in my relationship is beard hairs in the bathroom so I just got an apartment with two bathrooms. I kind of like the idea of switching off nights where one person gets a break and gets to hang out, but why does it have to be gender oriented?
Looks like my little rant didn't publish yesterday for some reason.
Beth I don't know if I clarified at any point that this support group is for couples. We specifically chose an evening group (vs. daytime which tends to me moms) because we wanted to be around mothers AND fathers.
I'm very supportive of involved fathers. Dad Power, yo! WWomen taking power in the home through child rearing is a product of sexism, just as men being pushed into the provider role is. Involved parents, no matter what shape that takes, is always the best for a child.
I don't think seperating us by gender does anything to involve men further in parenting. To me it just furthers the experience of the Mommy Club. It implies that in parenting there are issues that men just can't be involved in. I mean, what in the world are we going to talk about that men couldn't be present for, except types of tampons or having a bitch session about our spouses?
I'm just over being an example for people. I'm not there to model a good lesbian relationship, I'm there to be part of the group, and as far as I'm concerned, I have the right to get as much benefit as the straight people there. There are a total of 12 people in our group and we only meet twelve times. M. and I make up 17% of the group and now we will lose benefit from 17% of our meetings.
This is just my opinion, and I certainly have them. I'm simply tired of constantly running into insensitivity from the idiots around me.
Ah, I didn't get that. I thought you'd just split into two rooms and you could both stay in the mom room.
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