Culture of Men Part II
Postpartum isn't kind. Some days I feel completely devoid of any intelligent thought. Other days my brain is buzzing with a million ideas that slip away minutes later. It sucks. I managed to hold onto something I've been thinking about all day, so here goes.
There is NEVER a visit from my parents that doesn't involve some sort of comment by my mother about Finn being a boy. It is usually a reference to Finn liking something because he's a guy, such as a mechanical part or a beer bottle, or liking my dad more than the rest of us because they're guys, or having some sort of connection to my absent brother because, you know, they both have a penis.
I've been pondering the 'culture of men' comment my mother made during the f*ing circumcision discussion one day post op. I have always seen that comment as being only part of that horrid conversation where I had to defend my right to decide whether or not to circumcise our son. I've come to realize that it wasn't. It's how my mother views Finn in general.
He is male and in her eyes he will have to someday interact with other men...I don't know, smear mud, beat drums, check out each other's junk in the gym shower...something like that. We are women. We are innately unqualified and unequipped to raise our son as a man. Therefor she sees it as her grandmotherly responsibility to make sure Finn is raised in this MANLY way.
Like the circumcision discussion, my mother is again coming from an incredibly antiquated point of view. Finn will not be at a deficit because he is raised by two women. It is my sincere opinion that he will be at an advantage because he will not have the pressure put on him that a father often onto his son. M. and I don't really know what Finn needs to function in this mythological and sexist Culture of Men my mother is so concerned about, but we certainly know what he will need to function in the Culture of People. Compassion. Understanding. Kindness. Emotional maturity. Support. Family. Love. And we will do all in our power to set him free into this world with all of that.
In the meantime, if I hear another comment about Finn liking something or someone because he's a guy, I may possibly scream. But probably not. I'll just grind my teeth and know that ultimately it is M. and I who both are responsible and have the power to form Finn into the man that he will become.
posted by Sacha @ 10:50 PM
18 comments
18 Comments:
Next time tell your mom how fortunate Finn is to have TWO parents who love him, no matter what. There are plenty of men who are raised by single moms and come out just fine.
I don't blame you. I'm sure similar commentary is coming, for us, and I will be no more pleased to hear it than you are. :-P
I have 3 children. 2 girls and 1 boy. And I have to say...I notice a difference...they are all sweet, and loving and perfect...but the youngest...the boy...is a boy. He just is. Its something that just pops out as we watch him play, and interact. My husband and I just look at eash other and say..."ya, he's a boy"(he just gravitates towards the trucks and balls and tosses and throws them. He has access to dolls and "girly" things and just chooses the "typically" boy items.) My husband doesn't presure him to be a "boy" and "manly"...he's only 14 months old for gods sake. And he will never be pressured to be a boy or the girls to be girly. They will be whomever they will be. But...sometimes there just is a difference. And thats okay. As long as they are kind, compasionate, good people...they can be whomever they choose.
I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with the idea of 2 women raising a boy, or two men raising a girl...your mothers on crack. But please don't be so defensive and automatically assume that all men are...for lack of a better term...male pigs...that grunt and fart(although...). It does come across as a bit "anti" male in your comment...and I know thats not the case. Your son is lucky that you are letting him be who he wants to be. But please know that many heterosexual men can raise a man to be a sensitive human being as well. To say Finn is at an "advantage" is a judgement about how non-gay men raise their children. Similar to how your mother is judging how two gay women raise their son...
Perhaps a better way to phrase it, is to say that Finn is at an advantage to have 2 parents who love him and will allow him the freedom and diversity to find out and become who he is destined to be.
Allie
Are you trying to say that gender is social? Cuz that's just crazy talk. ;)
*hugs* from another boy mama (for now) who also has family who are concerned about our kid's gender and sexuality. If my kid ends up being manly, let's hope it is a result of all the Bears he will be influenced by.
I'm a lurker, but I just had to comment on this post.
All though on a MUCH different level, this kind of thing happens to my husband and I. Our children were adopted from Guatemala. One night at dinner, the kids were absolutely devouring the beans that I had made. I made a comment about it and a family member said that of course they liked the beans - "It's in their culture!". Hmmmm...that drove me nuts, so I can only imagine how y'all feel when your mom pushes the "man" thing. Finn will turn out a wonderful man regardless of sexuality or anything else. Finn will turn out wonderful because he's got two mamas that love him so much.
(Sorry I rambled!)rlvaslb
Off topic - but I just wanted you to know that I enjoy your blog - have been reading for awhile and I appreciate your honesty. I've added you to my blog roll as well - hope you don't mind. Cheers!
i can totally relate and we have a girl. (grand)parents often times for some reason feel compelled to share antiquated views on child rearing in general. i love when my dad suggests things that are so totally ridiculous and when i disagree or challenges it, his defense always goes back to the fact that he's raised children already and therefore knows. so, so judgemental & presumptuous, and so, so annoying so i can totally relate to your frustrations!
I've read your blog for a long time. It was, in fact, the first blog I had bookmarked and started reading regularly. But, I think I am done now.
I understand that a blog is not an entirely accurate picture of who you are IRL, but I have to say that you seem to be largely unhappy, entirely inflexible and unforgiving, and very angry. It seems like no matter what the world at large gives you, you are still unhappy and want more.
Boys and girls are different. It goes beyond having a penis. I am sorry that some past hurt in your life is not allowing you to see that there are men in this world who are wonderful, smart, caring, kind, compassionate people. But, if Finn gravitates towards 'manly' things, so what? He is, after all, a boy.
Try not to be so hard on those around you. When you have expectations that are unreachable, people are going to fail you everytime.
I mostly lurk but I felt I needed to speak up. I think your point is being lost on some. I don't think you are saying that you're choosing to ignore the obvious fact that Finn is a boy and all that entails. I think you are saying that his gender is not the only thing that defines who he is because ultimately he is Finn first. Your mother is clearly expressing her discomfort with the way you have choosen to live your life and raise your son in those barely veiled comments about this culture of men. I think your son will be a wonderful caring human who functions just fine in the world because he is loved by him mommies and they seem pretty smart (and happy)!
Yeah, my dad thinks Edie doesn't like him b/c she doesn't have enough men in her life. Which isn't true. Edie doesn't like how much he gets in her face.
To commenter Kristen - lots of people post negative stuff they need to vent on their blog. I think that's pretty normal. I agree with what Meg said and also want to add that I don't know your gender identity and sexual orientation, but I think that often people who are queer and/or vary outside the gender norm have a different perspective on this stuff. People's families push this stuff on them and it's annoying as hell, and comes (IMHO) from a place of homophobia. I have met Megan and Sacha IRL and trust me, they have no problem with Finn being a boy. They are not male-hating lesbians (from what I could tell). But, there are unfortunately very strict norms in our culture about how a boy can be (that's acceptable) and IMHO it's bullshit. And as far as having unrealistic expectations - I'm sorry, but I think expecting people not to write things like "I'm sitting next to a huge fat person" or whatever, or expecting your own mother to treat your partner as an equal parent, are reasonable expectations!!
Sacha - This topic reminds me of something I read in "Families Like Mine - Children of Gay Parents Tell it Like it Is". Some of the adult straight men in that book (who had been raised by two mom families) talked about how different their perspective was when it came to dating and relationships with women. Some of them found that they were at an advantage - b/c they had such egalitarian views of what relationships should be like, and of women and their roles. Interestingly though, some had a really hard time b/c women they dated would expect them to "be a man" or whatever the hell in the relationship, and they just didn't do things that way. I know you are so busy but it's a quick and great read at some point maybe.
Sorry, I have a lot to say about this. I also wanted to say to Allie - there has been research (not a huge amount, but some) that children of gay families (specifically lesbian parents) have less rigid gender norms. This could be for several reasons, but for example, could be b/c of things like seeing your parents not fall into strict gender roles (as some, but obviously not all, straight couples do) b/c they are both women, or letting their son dress up in "girls' clothes" and not freaking out about it, etc. Yes, there are heterosexual parents who do these same things, but queer families are more likely to do these things. And yes, I think that gives our children an advantage emotionally. I see/hear lots of moms, even progressive families, whose husbands *freak out* if their boy-child wants to wear pink, or a dress, or has a doll, etc. etc.
Beth from Rainbow...
I don't get where what I said is that differenty from what you said. I said that both my husband and I let him have access to whatever toys he WANTS but pointed out that he CHOOSES trucks. Trust me...with 2 big sisters...there are plenty of Dolly's being stuck in front of him. And he is more than welcome to play with them all he wants. I think it will help him develope into a wonderful father some day to learn to play with Dolls. And as for wearing dresses *sigh* I see many of those "look he's a princess too" days in our future. I *sigh* because I remember my older brothers dressing me up in thier airplane pj's and calling me their little doll. And they are two heterosexual males. So I certainly don't think gender's should be instructed to play with certain toys...BUT I DO believe that they should get to choose and go with what their instincts tell them. So if my son chooses his trucks over the barbie VW Bug...I certain won't tell him thats wrong and to change who he is. That would be just as bad as telling him he can't play with "girly toys"
My husband could care less about gender stereotypes. He is very secure in himself as a man and as a person. He was raised by an mostly absent father and his mother and grandmother and his 7 aunts. Trust me...he isn't afraid of any girly topics and he's heard them all. My point was that there is NOTHING wrong if Finn does turn into a burly construction man...just like there is nothing wrong if Finn becomes and airline steward or hairdresser. But to imply that there is something wrong with being a man...even a typical man...is devaluing the male gender. And there are wonderful man out there...wonderful fathers, and wonderful sons. So to make call against men...is making a call against their son.
And to assume that lesbian and gay families are instinctively more tolerant and better parents than heterosexual families is wrong. We are a wonderfully tolerant family. At least tolerant of people who aren't judgemental.
Allie
The research sides with Beth. While it is still developing the psychology literature shows same-sex couples to be far more flexible and open to less rigid gender norms for their children. The messages are so pervasive and we deal with them constantly.
Additionally, it shows that same-sex couples tend to have MORE other sex role models for their children than other-sex couples.
It's all interesting stuff. People notice what they notice. My mom saw H "hug" toys but ignored her playing with trucks. She prefers trucks and blocks - her tea set was used for stacking and knocking down but my mom kept asking H to serve her tea. Most of the gender socialization that goes on is far less subtle that what M&S are talking about. Additionally, most parents think they are far more open than they actually are - in repeated studies adults interact differently with the SAME baby when dressed differently and appear to be male or female.
Just my 2-cents.
A non-angry but clearly ticked lesbian momma to one FABULOUS little chica!
Thank you Beth! And Lo! And Kwynne! And Jenn! And EVERYONE!
To Kristen. I understand that you don't agree with my POV. I admit that I'm angry about this and I'm okay with that. I think everyone should have some righteous anger in them. Isn't there a bumper sticker that says "if you're not angry you're not paying attention."?
And of course I want more. I'm a minority as a queer and a woman. My marriage and family aren't recognized by the government. I live as a second class citizen but pay taxes like everyone else. I'm one person who feels passionate and deeply powerless at the same time. So I'm not happy with the paltry amount I'm given and I want more. You probably would too.
As for this assumption that so many jump to that I am somehow the stereotypical man-hating lesbian, I could seriously go blue in the face telling y'all a million times how much I love hangin' with the guys, and how supportive I am of fathering, and it would fall on deaf ears. To place me in that box is no better than my mother telling Finn there is only one way to be a boy in this world.
And I KNOW boys and girls are different. At the same time, if someone only ever pointed out trucks to you, you would probably start liking trucks, right? My point is that we want to point out trucks and dolls and butterflies and construction sites and mud and rainbows to our boy so he can decide what HE'S interested in instead of us deciding for him.
And REALLY, this is as blog. Blog: a publication of personal thoughts, experiences, and web links. It is updated frequently and is usually a mixture of what is happening in a person's life and what is happening on the web or in the media. BLOG! (M. says I'm yelling.) BLOOOOOGGGGGGGG! (Yeah, I'm yelling.) Gain some righteous outrage at inequality, don't accept the status quo, enjoy seeing life from someone else's perspective and keep reading. Or don't. It's up to you.
::big sigh::
Hmmm...i love this topic! I remember when i found out that we were having a boy my mom and I walked by a construction site and she said, "you know, now that you are having a boy you will have to come look at dump trucks and such." I said, "yes and I would if i was having a girl too."
i'm finding it more important to respond in these ways through parenthood when it seems appropriate and worthy of my energy.
I think the fact that your post got so many responses shows what a big deal gender is in our society. so much so that we push it on our children. The other day we were in a kids store and a mother was helping her son who was 3 or 4 try on rain boots. She said, "do you want the green frogs or the blue ones?" and he kept saying, "no! I want the pink ones." She said he couldn't have pink because those were for a girl. So interesting to me that she was unwilling to bend on this and who knows what her reasoning was. If it was my son, he would have the option. And by the way, research shows that children don't even recognize gender differences until they are 7 years old.
One more thing, I noticed among my hetero friends that had boys and were trying to decide about circumcision that many of them decided that they wanted their sons to "look like dad". And so the legacy lives on...
And by the way, what comes across as anti-male in this post? Hope to see you three tomorrow.
Hear, Hear!!!
Good heavens, I am sort of amused (and sort of annoyed) at how these comments have played out.
I know from experience with my mom that sometimes straight people are VERY uncomfortable with the idea that anything queer people do could be better. Even though she looooves to tell me that we are just as good!! and it doesn't matter to HER that we can't get married! (Funny, it matters to me.)
Saying that kids of queer people get to experience less rigid gender norms does *not* suggest, necessarily, that het couples are inferior. It's just a difference, that is positively valued by some. And as far as I know no one is calling for kids of straight people to be taken away and given to gay people. So why so threatened??
To Kristen,
I think you're missing the point that this post has nothing to do with men in general. It has to do with someone else trying to force the idea that Finn somehow has to be a certain way just because he has a penis.
There are differences between male and female children but people also start to differentiate between them as soon as birth. If someone is given an infant to hold that's in pink clothing he or she will describe it (and hold it) in a totally different manner than if the infant was in blue clothing. There's so much about gender development that is subtle and done at a very very young age that it's completely understandable for a mom to get upset when trying to protect her child from that which is probably even more frustrating that it's coming from a parental figure. Who wouldn't be upset about this? I sure would!
Post a Comment
<< Home