You were meant for me and I was meant for you...
Today as I was rocking our sweet boy to sleep I was thinking about the miracle of conception and how hard we worked to become a family. I was so bitter and angry when people said that it would happen, that our baby was out there. I was on the edge of questioning my fertility, something that I had never ever expected when starting the TTC process. I didn't want our baby to be out there, I wanted our baby NOW.
Now I understand.
I cannot shake the feeling that Finn was meant for us. Every waking moment with him makes eight tries feel incredibly worth it. It makes him feel even more wonderful that we fought so hard for him to come into existence.
I have a lot of opinions about all the IVF and assisted reproduction going on. I'm not sure such a profitable industry breeds ethical behavior. Many clinics use ICSI quite casually and I'm not sure we should be creating children that may never have come into existence without the assistance of technology. Are we passing infertility onto our children and is this right? And does the industry take advantage of couples who are desperate for children, pushing them to make a decision to go to IVF earlier and earlier?
The thing I hate about this line of thinking is that the inevitable conclusion is that some people simply shouldn't have children and I really really don't believe this to be true.
In my job I see the other end. We don't create life with technology, we sustain it. We stick tubes down peoples throats and force them to breath, we pump so much fluid into their bodies that they leak out their skin. I have the same questions. Should these people be allowed to die in a more natural manner? Just because we have the technology should we be using it in this manner? Does technology breed ethical behavior or destroy it?
These are some of the reasons I am hesitant to move "up" to critical care. And I wonder how I would feel if M. and I are forced to move to more interventions when it comes to getting her pregnant. As hard as eight tries was on us, I have a sense of pride and perseverance about our decisions. We stuck to the process even when the process threatened to destroy us. We know M. will probably take more interventions, at least some pharmaceuticals and maybe more, to get pregnant. How does this fit into my ethical framework? I won't know for sure until we are facing those hard decisions.
In the meantime, I will continue to rock our hard-won boy to sleep and marvel at how incredibly perfect for us he is. Our children wait for us out there in the abyss, in the darkness, and no matter how they get to us, they ultimately complete us in ways that are unimaginable until we are holding them in our arms.
posted by Sacha @ 9:04 AM
13 comments
13 Comments:
" ... I'm not sure we should be creating children that may never have come into existence without the assistance of technology."
I've got to take exception to this statement. I was a little surprised that you feel that way - given that Finn's conception didn't happen the old-fashioned way, either. I know that an IUI is fairly low-tech, but there's still technology involved.
Before I started trying to get pregnant, I made the statement that if we were infertile, before I would do IVF, I would adopt. But when I found out that we were infertile due to severe MFI, and that IVF/ICSI was our best chance to get pregnant, I didn't think twice about making that decision.
Maybe one doesn't know how one feels until one is forced to decide. (And you made this point in your post.)
" ... I'm not sure we should be creating children that may never have come into existence without the assistance of technology."
I agree completely with Michelle. And I'll be sure to tell my children-that-shouldn't-exist how you feel someday (Lord willing, being as I'm spotting at the moment.)
I think it's extremely easy to say that X technology shouldn't be used when one has never had to use it.
I think HAVING to use technology doesn't mean we stop thinking about the responsibility that comes with it. If there's one thing I want to do on this blog it's to talk about issues and think about how our actions impact our world. I don't think I can do that without saying things that are provacative at times.
Many clinics are forcing couples, even lesbian couples who have no evidence of male infertility, to ICSI because it keeps their success rates high. Is this ethical?
We don't know the long-term effects of all the assisted reproduction that's going on now. I feel it's being used very very casually. My niece and nephew are very early ICSI babies and they aren't even 11 yet. Will my BIL's infertility be passed onto his son? We don't know the effect of using sperm that never would have fertilized an egg in the first place.
Try not to take what I wrote personally. I don't wish any present or future child out of existance AT ALL. I just like talking about the big picture. And sometimes we all have to make decisions based on the small picture because that's what's important to us.
Also, I think when you come from a two-uterus family it's easy to be a bit philosophical about these issues. If we couldn't get M. pregnant short of IVF we still have my sub-standard uterus and eggs to try with if we decided not to do IVF for these philisophical reasons I'm discussing. Not everyone else is in this same situation.
M. is reading a really really good book that examines the consequences of assited reproduction on all different levels. I'll post the name of it when she gets home.
As for Finn, please don't forget that we did two home inseminations on the cycle we got pregnant and one poorly timed IUI. And we didn't do an IUI for seven cycles, so it wasn't a decision we made easily. We avoided using any technology as long as we possibly could.
A friend of mine made a similar statement once, about passing on infertility. Except that she went a step further and DID say that some people just shouldn't have children... if it didn't "work" for you then it "wasn't meant to be." It's a statement of a woman blessed with fertility.
I don't disagree that some infertility issues may be passed on... but I also know that MANY of us with fertility concerns out there came from fertile people. I mean, I was born the old-fashioned way without fertility treatments. Yet I have PCOS. And while I /do/ think that I probably could have gotten pregnant with sperm alone (and Metformin, which I don't consider a fertility drug) - when you're paying big bucks for sperm you sometimes want to hurry things along. I know if we'd had a KD who was readily available, things may have been different.
Though we DID talk about other options we would explore before considering IVF because like you, we weren't sure that was an avenue we wanted to go down. But what sucks is that if you DO need a little fertility help (IUIs, drugs, monitoring, triggers, whatever), the docs often breeze through the less invasive stuff to get to IVF for the "higher success rates." My RE was SO blase about our IUI cycles and actually said to me when it looked like cycle #5 was a bust (we got it on #6), "It's okay, because after one more injectable cycle your insurance will automatically cover IVF."
I cursed him out for 30 minutes over the phone, demanded that try #6 go my way instead of his way, and got pregnant. But still... it's easy to just go along with whatever a doc says when you're babylusting and desperate and someone says they can all but guarantee you a baby.
"You were meant for me and I was meant for you" This is a beautiful statement, and exactly what I was thinking this evening when I nursed my little boy down to sleep. We spent 5 months trying to find the right donor and then another 6 months TTC. Despite the hardships of those times, when I look into my sons' eyes, I know I wouldn't have it any other way.
"Many clinics are forcing couples, even lesbian couples who have no evidence of male infertility, to ICSI because it keeps their success rates high."
Aside from the ethics of what clinics push, and how quickly, I can't follow your logic - if you're talking about lesbians with no known fertility issues using donor sperm, how is this likely to pass on infertility?
Aside from that, I want to say that I found the implied superiority in your post upsetting. It's hard NOT to take it personally, even if you didn't mean it that way. After 9 failed home insems, and 8 failed IUIs over 2 years, with NO diagnosis of anything remotely resembling infertility, we're now contemplating IVF. How long do you suggest that we continue to live in limbo? You went through 8 tries so you have some understanding of what that starts to do to your life. Are we not trying hard enough? Fighting for our baby to come into existence? Maybe if we just persevere a little longer? I guess it's a decision one can only make for oneself, and you only know if you've been there. I hope this only ever remains a philosophical exercise for you both.
ICSI takes a sperm and puts it into an egg. There is no way to tell if this sperm would have penetrated said egg in the first place. The most obvious result is that if the male has fertility issues then there is a good chance those will be passed on.
We don't know for sure the long-term effects of ICSI. When my SIL had it done it was a brand new procedure and that was 10.5 years ago. Yet it's used regularly for no reason except to increase the rate of success for clinics. There is no reason healthy sperm wouldn't penetrate healthy eggs without assistance. Seriously, is this ethical????? The industry is unregulated so it will only stop doing this if people start questioning if ICSI is needed beyond boosting their numbers.
I do believe there are legitimate reasons to do IVF. I also believe that it's a highly profitable industry that sees IVF as the only solution. I know people are desperate to get pregnant and I seriously question if the industry is taking advantage of this desperation. And I do believe the industry pushes people to IVF.
And YES I am proud that I stuck to my guns when we were TTC Finn. I won't apologize for that. He was never easy, from TTC to pregnancy to labor to newborn. Our experience in creating him is part if him now and I love that he was some little ball of cells who actually decided to stick around.
In a way I feel that I'm being asked to put down my own TTC experience because others have it worse. I think any moment a beloved child is formed is a wonderful moment. I simply question the motives of a highly profitable industry and the necessity of a medical procedure. And for me the birth of our son is so filled with pain at the moment that the one thing I have to hold onto is that he was at least concieved the way I wanted.
VeeI think after a total of seventeen tries moving to IVF is a very natural conclusion.
And now my bigger ball of cells needs breakfast.
lost my previous post so i'll try to sum it up.
I was never pushed to IVF but I sure wish I had done it sooner.
Yes as someone who is neither infetile, has a two uterus household AND a child this conversation is all very philosohpical. And it is your right to write your opinions on your blog
This is not philosophical to me. My eggs refuse to be fertilized even with ICSI. This is about my body, my infertility and the fact that in this 2 uterus household; one of them is 50 years old. Sorry I can't NOT take it personally.
So following your statement..if my eggs can't be fertilized naturally maybe I shouldn't be using any kind of technology to help them along because of the possible wonkiness I may pass along.
But you know I learned a while ago to just let "philosophical" opinions just pass me by because in the end the only opinions worth anything are mine and my partner's. And the only persons I go to for empathy and understanding are persons who know the pain I am living with every day.
Sacha, nobody's asking you to put down your experience. We're asking you to quit putting down ours, to quit suggesting that we shouldn't be reproducing because it requires greater intervention than you deem morally appropriate.
Could children born of MFI-required ICSI have MFI? Sure. Or they could not exist. Or they could be the embryo conceived without ICSI at very high odds, but still inherit (since it's based on chromosomes, not the quality of the sperm in question's acrosome) MFI. Take your choice.
Could I have had my eggs fertilized without ICSI? Maybe - or maybe I wouldn't have gotten the two embryos out of 27 that were worth a damn and at least one of which is at the moment wreaking havoc in my uterus. I doubt that I'm passing on MFI to any sons, what with my sperm donor being, well, y'know, fertile and all. My girls may have hard egg-shells and need IVF themselves, but hell, is that worse than not existing at all? I'd say not.
And now, I'm taking my "shouldn't be created" embryo(s) and going to find dinner. Clearly you're just not going to "get" it despite Sophia, and Vee, and Michelle and I trying to explain it to you.
Did you post the name of the book you mentioned somewhere or did I miss it? I'm interested in it, since you seem to have information I do not have regarding ICSI and clinics pushing it. My clinic certainly didn't (we asked about it since we only retrieved 4 eggs, they said it wasn't necessary). And my clinic has a high success rate.
I'm so glad that you ended up with your wonderful little boy who was meant for you.
Some people's "meant for them" children come to them through IVF and ICSI. I bet every one of those people would have loved to have conceived at home with candles lit and Sarah McLachlan playing. As someone currently recovering from an egg retrieval I can tell you that it is no fun, and it's not something that people choose lightly.
You were lucky. You had a known donor, and home inseminations plus an IUI (badly timed or not, it does double the chances) did it for you. You were lucky that you didn't have to face choices that other people face.
Like so many decisions, I think this one looks a lot different from an armchair when you've already got your kid.
Best wishes to all of you on Finn's first birthday.
P.S. I was initially hesitant about ICSI, and so I did my research. Best studies right now show ICSI children as scoring slightly better on cognitive tests -- probably an artifact of the socio-economic status of ICSI parents, but definitely not a smoking gun. People don't choose this stuff lightly. Everyone understands that we're (hopefully) creating a life.
Jennifer, the name of the book I read is Everything Conceivable by Liza Mundy. The subtitle is How Assisted Reproduction is Changing Men, Women and the World. If found it an easy read and thought it brought up some interesting issues about infertility and assisted reproduction. A large portion of the book is focused on IVF. There was some but not much mention of people using known sperm (especially) or egg donors.
I feel like some of the above posters are only seeing part of your post and then seeing nothing but red. I'd like to preface my remarks by saying that we did not have to get to IVF, that we stuck it out instead of doing an IUI, but we tried for 22 cycles, 18 of which we used multiple fertility meds. So, I have some of the same heartbreak and questions.
I do look to my relatives that have had to adopt and wonder if I have the same condition, just in a better time for receiving medical intervention. I don't mind passing this condition along to my daughter since it's not fatal and she can live her life fairly normally with it. It's easier for me to accept passing along infertility to my daughter than it is the heart disease and diabetes in my family.
I do understand what you mean about the ethics and science not always working together. I've been surprised by my friends being encouraged to go to IVF immediately. Just as I get frustrated and angered by the structure that suggests women have five or more embryos implanted because of chances and costs. What about the chances that are being taken with the life and health of the mother and babies? I think the ethics are a little muddled by those in charge and that those of us who are desperate for kids are not always in the best frame of heart & mind to question those that claim to know best.
I think we all have our lines in the sand. I just hope that these lines aren't due to pressure from doctors and insurance companies but are drawn from our own values regarding our physical and mental health and the affect these stressful procedures have on us, our partners, and kids, if applicable.
I know what you mean by the wait making sense, though. We're so incredibly blessed to have THIS little baby. I'm glad life worked out this way.
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